Sj7g09's Blog

Archive for the ‘ADP’ Category

1. Write short paragraph highlighting the specific issues and context for your work.

Include the following:
• What was your work about?
• What relation does media/process/method play in respect to your ideas?
• What information (visual or written) have you found which has informed the development of your work – (artists, theory, other)?

At first, I used the ADP blog as a continuation of my sketchbook, but as the project progressed, I decided to have more focus on using a blog than a sketchbook because I felt it suited my working practice better. The work on the ADP blog was mainly an outlet of reflective practice to explore ideas, analyse art history, contemporary artists’ work and sociological context, but also included photographs of my own paintings, drawings and artist book with annotations on techniques used and ideas behind them.

Ideas are very important in my practice, and I think I often tend to value learning new things over the artwork I eventually create, as I feel that, in a way, the process of learning and reflecting is art in itself. Because of this, the blog became a big part of my working process, and I feel that it is the main body of my work, as it links all the ideas together. I generally like to try to understand ideas before trying to create art based on them, which is why I do so much research, and why the blog was so useful to me as it allowed me to write and reflect. Through this research, I then branched out into creating my own drawings, paintings and photographs, documented on the blog, which influenced my ideas in the sense of finding that the images on the blog portrayed my work completely differently to the work in my analogue sketchbook.

Most of my references relate more to the main project I was creating work for, rather than being specifically directed towards blogging. However, the issues did seem to overlap, through the politics of free speech on the internet, as my main project was on the boundaries of acceptability and censorship, and the blog made me consider this from a first-hand perspective.

  • Susan Anderson’s “High Glitz” series
  • Balthus
  • Alan Bennett’s “Playing Sandwiches”
  • Freud’s theories on id/ego/superego, and development of sexuality
  • James Graham’s weblog
  • Lauren Greenfield
  • David Hancock
  • Lauren Kipnis’s “Bound & Gagged: Pornography and the Politics of Fantasy in America”
  • Amanda Palmer’s weblog
  • Roy Stuart
  • Amateur self-portrait photography
  • Censorship legislation
  • “Consultation on the Possession of Extreme Pornographic Material”, Home Office.
  • The Daily Mail
  • Fashion advertising
  • Perspectives on International Art lecture series
  • Pornography

2. Evaluate your work and your progress. Include comments on strengths & weaknesses.

I think that my practice is progressing rapidly as I have done so much research, and those ideas have really influenced my views, and I’ve been working in different ways that I wouldn’t have considered before. I’m finding that the comparative freedom is helping me to pursue challenging ideas and themes in ways that I would have felt unable to do in the past. However, I do feel that more discussion with staff running the ADP module would have helped me to reflect more effectively on my practice, and still feel that I require a more open, equal dialogue to be able to continue with my work in the way that I’d like to and explore ideas fully.
Strengths

  • My analytical skills have improved, and I’m much more able to look at context and give my own ideas rather than solely looking at the theories of others.
  • I’ve been exposed to more varied types of media and have started to give low culture as much thought as high art, giving me a wider view of what art is and what I can draw influence from.
  • Blogging gave me an outlet for reflective practice, which I feel has enabled me to think about what I’m doing and why, allowing my work to develop with conscientious thought and self-awareness.

Weaknesses

  • I often find it difficult to integrate research with my own work, and find that media analysis and understanding ideas takes priority over practical work.
  • Some seem to have seen my work as unethical, which is probably a weakness from the official standpoint, and something I need to consider further.
  • I think in the future I need to create more original images, although it was important for me to use secondary source images from the internet within this context.

3. Which aspects of your work would you like to develop further?

  • I intend to continue using a blog to document my ideas, as I’m unable to present research and written theory or ideas as effectively in an analogue sketchbook.
  • I want to continue to use the same depth of research, drawing inspiration from art history, contemporary work, feminist theory, and modern media. I feel that it’s important to continue to find not only artists or practitioners that I identify with, but also to study work and ideas that conflict with my own. Similarly, I would like to engage in more discussion and debate – I feel that being allowed to discuss the issues people may have with my work would help my practice to develop.
  • I feel that it’s important that I pursue similar themes to the ones I started to explore in the ADP project, as they have always been an important part of my practice, but I didn’t explicitly realise this until being exposed to the level of reflective practice necessary to create a blog. Also, they seemed to spark somewhat of a controversy, and this suggests that there is more to be found in these subjects and how both individuals and the institution react to ideas that don’t conform to mainstream norms and values.
  • In doing this, I would like to develop my skills in translating ideas to visual pieces that still maintain and convey their meaning. Hopefully in the future I will be able to find strategies to create thought-provoking pieces, possibly incorporating more irony or parody than the work I have created so far, that don’t compromise their ideals, but instead find more effective ways to make the ideas accessible and visually stimulating.

I just re-read the ADP brief, and noticed that blogging was introduced through saying “In online diaries, people write their day-to-day experiences, social commentary, complaints, poem, prose, illicit thoughts and any content that might be found in a traditional paper diary or journal“. This struck me as fantastic irony, as anything can be written in a traditional journal, and the brief even suggested that blogs may include social commentary, complaints and illicit thoughts, but now the general complaint seems to be that my work was being published to a large audience, so I shouldn’t have posted what I did. I’d feel comfortable writing these things in a traditional paper diary – I even have them on my own online journal which has the potential to reach more than just 300 first year students, their parents and people working with them outside of school, who are apparently the people that needed to be saved from potential offense. Anyway, the wording of the brief suggests to me that all of this was totally subjective – it never said that anything was too illicit. Blogging can either reflect life and be like material that is actually on the internet, like the blogs of artists, or it can be dulled down, not talking about certain things because it’s affiliated with a university, creating something that is confined to the realms of being a student, something that is for a project, not for your actual practice. Funny how only when you’re linked to a university do you have to start to block ideas. If staff are going to continuously use the mantra “you’re an artist with a practice”, everyone should be consistent about it, or at least not undermine it. There’s a complete lack of consistency within the staff and between departments, which is to be expected, but it makes it hard to know how to work when the messages are totally contradictory, for example with the International Perspectives on Art lectures suggesting that you need to be exposed to and think about art and ideas that you don’t agree with, then a different department censoring things in case people find them offensive. Both of these views are opinion, but clearly I was more influenced by the views expressed in the International Art lectures, but then it feels like being slapped down and told that I picked the wrong person to listen to. The brief said to write anything that I would in a paper diary, and that’s what I did. You can’t describe blogging in these terms then expect people to censor themselves before saying anything ‘wrong’, particularly as no one has spoken to me in person about any of this – the extent of my debriefing was an email mostly copied and pasted from the ethics form.

I thought it’d be useful to try to honestly answer all of the questions on the ADP sheet.

“Have you represented your thought and making process in your blog? i.e. how have your work and ideas developed? How references link to ideas? How your ideas change over time?”

I’d say I’ve represented my thoughts in the blog – I try to talk about how I interpret all the different things. I haven’t depicted stages in making things visually, but I do talk about the process I’ve undergone in adapting ideas and processes used to make any work. My work and ideas have changed through linking to each other – I do a lot of research on art history, contemporary artists, law, sociology, theories on art. It’s only through these ideas that my physical work develops, but I’d say that the ideas and learning are more important than the actual art – the art is a representation of the ideas.

“Are you making relationships between the ADP lectures/processes and your own work?”

I wouldn’t say that I’ve made all that many links between the ADP lectures and my work – I tried to at first, but it wasn’t working for me. There are some themes from the lectures that I attended that I decided to pick up on, but they’ve branched out from the original stimulus. I think I was very interested in the idea of social networking causing people to be constantly connected to the outside world, and obviously I’ve worked around the themes of the internet being a place for free expression, with blogs being used to express alternative opinions – for example, in one of the lectures blogging on the Iranian elections was mentioned, but I looked at different examples of these ideas. As for processes, I use them where necessary. I think it undermines the integrity of work to use techniques for the sake of it.

“How have other practitioners/artists/ideas/movements influenced your thinking? And who/what are they?”

There are a number of artists I’ve looked at, for example, Lauren Greenfield, Susan Anderson, Balthus, Roy Stuart, Alan Bennett, because of the ideas and themes their work links to. I’ve also looked at a lot of media that can’t be classified as being by a particular artist, for example, pornography, fashion photography, and advertising. During the course of this project, I also did a lot of research into censorship laws that have come into place recently, or that are proposed for the future. I’ve tried to link all these different sorts of ideas together to try to understand them as a whole – for example by comparing modern pornography to classic art, such as John Everett Millais’s Ophelia. I think my views on pornography as art was very influenced by Bound & Gagged by Lauren Kipnis, which encompasses a lot of the things that fascinate me about these subjects – law, case studies, censorship, blasphemy, comparing pornography to fine art photography.

“How many different technical and digital processes have you used? What are they? Why have you used these processes?”

During this project I’ve used digital photography, photoshop editing tools, screenshots, webcam photography, blogging, constant internet use, and Paint to draw my cat Stripey. That may be all of them, I don’t know. I used these processes because they were necessary to articulate my work – they were the best way I could think of to get my ideas across.

“Did you make work that was specific to the digital format/blog? What did you do? How did this work? What did you learn from this?”

All of the photography is digital, and I wanted to present it on a blog instead of in a sketchbook because it can be looked at in more detail and definition. Printers can never really do justice to an image. It can be nice to have a physical copy of it, but I prefer to view photographs online, unless they are specifically nostalgic or textural and so need to be viewed as a ‘real’ photograph. I’d say nearly all of my work is specific to digital format, because nearly all of my work is on a blog. Even if there are images that appear in my sketchbook, those images are totally reinvented by being in digital format – I view them in totally different ways depending on whether I’m looking at them on my blog, or in my sketchbook. I suppose that I learned that I want to continue to use blogging as I find it useful to compile my images in one place, and to write about them in a way that I can’t in a sketchbook.

“What have you learnt from using the blog? i.e. through seeing other students work – discussions that have taken place on the blog with your peer group?”

I’ve learnt a lot of things from using the blog – firstly, simple things, like that blogging is very useful to me as an artist. I’d never appreciated the idea before, but now I see it differently. I really enjoyed being in an environment where I could discuss peoples’ work, that I could have a constant view onto what people were sharing of their work on the blog, and I’ll miss being able to have that dialogue with people. I’ve had some really interesting discussions with people in which I feel I’ve had to think properly to convey my point, and in talking to people who don’t agree with me, it gives me the opportunity to find out what others think, why they don’t share my opinions, and through being challenged in this way, it helps me to re-evaluate what I think, to find answers to their questions. Most notably, for me, these discussions have been on religion, and on censorship. It’s also opened up discussions with staff – I’ve found it valuable to talk to certain members of staff in person, while others seem unable or unwilling to engage in any dialogue with me. I suppose this has taught me that blogging is useful, but I need full control over what I’m publishing – there’s no point in me being subject to a higher power who can change my work, because it’s too frustrating for me, although it has really kickstarted my work and made me more determined.

“Has looking at and adding to the blog altered your relationship to a new group/university? How has it changed your learning experience?”

The blog has definitely altered my learning experience and relation to people. At first, I found it very intimidating to post onto a blog where I didn’t know anyone, where I knew I’d be sharing ideas that were very important to me that would make me vulnerable, but it helped my confidence and sense of self to get past this and do something that I found very difficult. I’m not really sure how people view me at university, in regard to either staff or students. I’ve probably talked more to other students in discussions on the blog than I have in person – some of the people I’ve talked to most, I haven’t even met in person. I probably see them most days, but have no idea who they are. I kind of like that anonymity that the blog gave, because I wonder whether people know who I am. I suppose that kind of helps me, to be a figure where no one really knows or connects both my name and face – people probably know one or the other, but not both. Or maybe I’m totally wrong and I’m completely accountable, I dont know. Either way, I’ve found it quite stressful to be in a position of vulnerability, sharing ideas that were apparently unpopular if their censorship is anything to go by, and it has been an emotional thing. I’ve gone through various stages of resenting the school, feeling bitter, angry, upset, nervous, self-conscious. It’s lucky that I’m not in this new university environment on my own, or I would have been under too much pressure from all of this, and I think I could have given up on university either when I was angry about it, or totally deflated, thinking that no one was prepared to listen to or respect my ideas.

“Look at the artist book collection in the library and find a link to your work – how are your posts contributing to the development of an idea? How do they add up as a set of pages or references – a book?”

The only book I really identified with that I saw in the collection was the book that was seized by the police, as it made me think more about the issues of depiction and what is seen as unacceptable – it all linked perfectly to the themes of my work, but it’s more the context around the book than the actual object. With the other books, there was another that interested me – the book that when opened made the noise and sensation of breathing. Because of what I was looking at, I wanted to link it to asphyxiation, snuff films, the romanticised idea of female death, etc. but the actual book isn’t my style of working, it just sparked off ideas.

At first, I was disheartened and intimidated by posting on a communal blog as this wasn’t what I expected, and adapting to this shift took a few days, so I created a blog to practice getting my ideas into blog format, and decided to create posts like this, then copy them to the ADP blog. Until this, I hadn’t engaged with or enjoyed blogging, but as my projects progressed, I found that I was more suited to a blog than a sketchbook as I write lots, so this influenced my working process, and blogging is something I want to continue with as it’s effective in sharing ideas with a potentially large audience. I was very enthusiastic about this with the shared blog, as I enjoyed seeing other peoples’ ideas, and being able to comment and discuss them, but because of my work being taken down, I feel that I was denied this freedom to share ideas and get feedback on them from others. My work being deleted has probably caused more discussion than I think it would have if it had been left up, but at the same time, people don’t actually know the content that was taken down, so it’s hard for them to form opinions without seeing it for themselves. No one seems to want to actually discuss my work, just the ethics around my work. The reaction to the ADP posts have heavily influenced what I want to work with in the future, by challenging views and pushing boundaries.

I’ve linked my work more to the International Perspectives on Art lectures because I’ve engaged with them in a way that I haven’t with ADP, although one post applying those lectures to my work was ‘removed from view’. I haven’t felt motivated by ADP lectures – I eventually gave up on them, because I felt I could be learning things that were relevant to my practice instead of the general view that the internet is big. The themes were too broad for me, they almost touched on points of interest but never quite got there because nothing was looked at in detail. It seems like a module where people are forced to use technology for the sake of it, so assessors can check the right boxes at the end to say people can do it, but it seems like people who couldn’t use computers still can’t. I’ve used a lot more digital techniques in posts I haven’t added to the ADP blog, for example embedding video, using screenshots,and photoshop, because the techniques were relevant rather than making sure I’d hit all the marking criteria, but I feel unable to post these because all my work is interlinked and I can’t share all of it. I have used themes linking self-portraiture and technology through constant connectivity with social networking and how new technology has changed how modern teenagers express themselves, but these posts use self-portraits of underage models, which I was censored for once already. Blogging is a really valuable way of  sharing ideas, but only when you have the creative freedom to express what you truly think in an environment where criticism is valid but removing work from debate is not.

It seems that I agree with the UK government on so very few things, but I want to thank WSA for giving me the opportunity to find new things to disagree with. In censoring me, of course I’m going to look more into the subjects that I assume I was censored because of. This caused me to find out more about the Child Pornography Acts that are in place in the UK. Now, of course I agree that child abuse is wrong and should not be documented or distributed to the internet, but that’s as far as I think it should go. But, naturally, the UK laws go much further than this. In my opinion of what is acceptable and inacceptable, it’s acceptable for there to be laws to prevent harm to children, and therefore it is important that photographs and videos depicting sexual activity with a child are not allowed to be produced. I’d like to highlight that I think it should be the people who make this sort of pornography that are punished for actually committing a crime towards children, not the people who consume such pornography, as they haven’t committed any crime except a thought crime. If people did not produce child pornography, there would be no crime of people owning child pornography because it would not exist. It doesn’t work the other way around as the media tries to insist – “well, if people didn’t look at child pornography, there would be no demand for it and it wouldnt be made”. As it stands, the government is using an easy get-out clause of saying that “making” child pornography includes copying, saving or printing an image created by someone else, because this is “making” a copy of the image that would not otherwise exist. Basically, it’s easier to place the blame on people who are easier to identify and prosecute than actually finding the real source of child pornography.

In the UK, it is also illegal to have tracings or pseudo-photographs, and now there are plans to make it illegal to have any image that depicts or appears to depict child abuse – this includes computer-generated images and drawings. So if this includes drawings, where would the work of Balthus stand in regard to the law now? Some of his paintings show sexual activity with children, so I assume that would mean a 3 year prison sentence and unlimited fine. But it’s art. All this does is hold back progress because of the idea that it’s protecting children. Laws like this clearly don’t protect children – there’s nothing to protect them from. All this law does is punish people for having unconventional sexual fantasies, under the guise of preventing them from committing crimes against children. Surely it’s much better for people to be able to legally view material like cartoons or computer-generated images of child abuse, because making that material didn’t ever involve real children, and it means that people have an outlet for their fantasies.

Included under material people will not be allowed to own under the proposed Coroners and Justice Bill are photos, drawings, computer-generated images, videos or cartoons that depict, even non-realistic, sex with under-18s, even though the age of consent in the UK is 16. This also applies if the person is over 18, but it’s implied that they’re under 18.

chargers_cheerleader

So if this image was distributed with the implication that the woman was actually still a highschool cheerleader, this would be illegal, even though it has nothing to do with children except fantasy. Doesn’t the government know that however much people play pretend, it’s not just going to pop into reality because they thought about it enough?

lostgirlsnewcoversmall_lg

image from Lost Girls by Alan Moore

For more than a century, Alice, Wendy and Dorothy have been our guides through the Wonderland, Neverland and Land of Oz of our childhoods. Now like us, these three lost girls have grown up and are ready to guide us again, this time through the realms of our sexual awakening and fulfillment. Through their familiar fairytales they share with us their most intimate revelations of desire in its many forms, revelations that shine out radiantly through the dark clouds of war gathering around a luxury Austrian hotel. Drawing on the rich heritage of erotica, Lost Girls is the rediscovery of the power of ecstatic writing and art in a sublime union that only the medium of comics can achieve. Exquisite, thoughtful, and human, Lost Girls is a work of breathtaking scope that challenges the very notion of art fettered by convention.”

These laws don’t even try to make a distinction between pornography and art – when the government was questioned on whether material such as graphic novels like “Lost Girls”, “Sandman” or “Watchmen” would be illegal under the new law, they replied that they may already be considered illegal to publish or supply under the Obscene Publication Act if a jury considers that they “corrupt or deprave”. But a jury is made up of ordinary people who are likely to be very biased against images showing child abuse because they’ve been socialised into this moral panic – would you let a jury of homophobes precide over the murder of a gay person, or racists over the trial of a defendant from an ethnic minority, or misogynists over a rape trial? I’d hope not. But it’s going to be basically impossible to find people so removed from social norms and values to not be biased in cases of child abuse or paedophilia.

“We are unaware of any specific research into whether there is a link between accessing these fantasy images of child sexual abuse and the commission of offences against children, but it is felt by police and childrens’ welfare organisations that the possession and circulation of these images serves to legitimize and reinforce highly inappropriate views about children.”

mamimatsuyama17

This image is very similar to one of the photos in a post that got deleted from my blog. No one’s told me whether it was the photo that got it deleted, so I’ll have to feel out the boundaries for myself and see if this one disappears as well. At least in getting censored, I know I’m finding the sore spots in society, the things people would rather not acknowledge – it lets me know that I’m on the right track for my project in finding what is inside and outside acceptability because if I get censored, I’ve hit the right buttons and should continue pushing that subject.

So, the differences between the images are that the girl in the photo that got deleted was naked (except for knee high socks), and that the image that was deleted was an amateur self-portrait. I’m sure everyone’s seen that sort of picture – taking a photo into a mirror or such like. The above image is of a professional model, taken by a professional photographer, and instead of being naked, she’s in a school uniform. Both images showed the girls’ bedrooms and their personal belongings, which gave the impression of them being childish. But who’s to say – why can’t adults have toys in their bedroom? I have toys in mine and I’m not a child. One thing that I will suggest is that if these images, or the image deleted previously, are seen as inacceptable, this is because of their using symbols from childhood, because I could put up photos of the same women in adult clothing without fear of censorship, forcing me to conclude that it is their clothing and context that leave them at risk of being seen as not acceptable.

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To me, this image shows Lolita fashion, which involves dressing in such a way that makes girls look younger than they are. Often this fashion style involves using clothing or objects that are symbolic of childhood – ribbons or bows, gingham pattern (much like found on many primary school uniforms for girls), knee high socks, wearing minimal makeup to emphasise natural childlike features, and even carrying cuddly toys. It’s interesting that this fashion style is generally quite conservative, drawing influences from Victorian dress styles, but at the same time Lolita fashion is popular in pornography because the women are seen as modest, conservative, offlimits, and obviously this heightens their desirability.

mamimatsuyama5
The term “Lolita” comes from the book of the same name by Vladimir Nabokov, in which the main character is attracted to an underage girl, who he nicknames Lolita. I can’t imagine anyone in modern society being able to write on this subject any more, because it’s just too charged, but that’s why it’s important to discuss these issues. Censoring them doesn’t mean that the issues don’t exist any more, it just means that whoever censored it is socialised enough into the mainstream to not think that discussion of or exposure to the things that society deems inappropriate is important, thus limiting creative and academic freedom and progress.

One thing that has really interested me throughout this project is the issue of context. At the beginning, I thought that a lot of this context of acceptability or inacceptability would be defined by whether the images were considered high art or not, but I’m not sure whether this is the case seeing as a post that contained only the images of recognised documentary photographers was deleted (presumably because their subjects were children).

So, testing the boundaries is important. Maybe I should try to work out what is or is not considered acceptable for society by using the university as a microcosm of society – it’s probably going to censor the ideas that do not adhere to mainstream norms and values, and so noting what gets censored by the university says a lot about what is acceptable or inacceptable in wider society.

RoyStuart1

image by Roy Stuart

Roy Stuart is an erotic photographer whose work is mainstreamly acceptable enough to be on the shelves of major bookstores, and therefore is not seen as pornography. If this was in a pornographic context, would it be more sinister? Would we be more willing to believe that this woman has been kidnapped, is about to be raped or murdered, rather than seeing it as a staged photograph?

RoyStuartPianoLessons

image by Roy Stuart

So, obviously this image isn’t sexually explicit, but within the context of a book on erotic photography, it gains sexual meaning. This is one thing that has interested me – does putting images of children near images of sex make the images of children interpreted as sexual? Like, for this project I have one folder where I’ve saved all the artist images that I’ve been using, and so this folder includes both pictures by Lauren Greenfield and Susan Anderson of children, and bdsm pornography. Having them in the same folder doesn’t actually link them, but maybe people see it as not acceptable. I’m still having to speculate over why my work was taken down, and am wondering if maybe the reason was that it’s not ok to have images of children and images of pornography on the same blog, even if they’re in different posts making different points. But then some images of children have stayed up while others were taken down, so maybe not. Who knows? I certainly haven’t been given any answers yet.

Anyway, obviously the image above can be interpreted as sexualising a child. The model probably isn’t actually a child, but they appear in such a way that makes them seem like a child – the image fetishises things that are associated with childhood, like piano lessons and what looks like a school uniform. This probably a very unpopular idea, but maybe these things are sexualised because people under the age of consent do have a sexuality. However uncomfortable it is for people to admit it, I believe that it is true – just because our modern moral panic society doesn’t want it to be true doesn’t mean it isn’t. Think of Freud’s theories on sexual development – childhood is an important time in this, and therefore it makes sense that in later life people would be aroused by things from their childhood. Children often play in a way that involves nudity or things that would be interpreted as sexual by adults, but to children it isn’t shameful, they don’t know it’s considered “wrong” by adults – it’s only parents’ reactions that condition children to be ashamed of their bodies. Why is it seemingly not ok to make these points? A very common male fantasy is to have a woman dress up in a school uniform – it sexualises the uniform which is associated with childhood, but projects it onto a woman who is over the age of consent, so it’s not that men want to have sex with minors, it’s that they find the object of the school uniform arousing when it’s applied to an attractive woman. In the context of the uniform being on an actual child, I’m sure most men would not find it arousing – they probably see it as so far removed from their fantasy that they don’t even connect them.

mamimatsuyama18

This image is taken of a model who isn’t underage, but it also isn’t fine art. It’s obviously strikingly similar to the above fine art photograph – which is more or less acceptable? The image is intended to be softcore erotica, showing the idea that fantasies often involve school uniforms on women who are no longer schoolgirls, or women acting younger than they are. Surely this makes sense from a biological perspective – based on primal instincts, men want to dominate women in sex, and this is a lot easier if they are in a position of power, for example in the fantasy situation of being the female’s piano teacher.

(I wonder if this post will get deleted…It says similar things to the last one, but the photos are less obvious. I wonder if the writing in my blog posts were even read last time. If so, I hope the irony of censoring a project on censorship was appreciated.)



  • fred whitacre jr: they don,t have any sex invaled why are we so againce children being nude in pictures because of alll the sick fucking rapetist out there children
  • fred whitacre jr: she only 12 but it is not porn at all it is nude only only a sick person would want to fuck her not me but i will tell you the true she is a very hot
  • fred whitacre jr: i see noghting wrong just a nude girl no porn that would be wrong with a child but not worng with a grown up only nude pics of children is ok if no se